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ultraviolet9aI was going through superwiki trying to find some background info for some plot bunnies (i'm in a total brainstorming and plotting out and skinning plot bunnies phase, but when it comes to writing I can't focus. I think i'm going to lay low, let it all ferment and see what kind of stew comes up.)
So anyway, I came to this section that explained what Fandom wank was (didn't know that existed, am trying to forget about it really) and I came upon a case where someone had commented on the work of someone else in a way that the recipient didn't like and it all escalated.
So that got me thinking. How does one use concrit? And how does one accept it?
I mean, so far most of the stories I've read have been darn good and commenting is easy.
But what if you don't like a story you come across?
So anyway, I came to this section that explained what Fandom wank was (didn't know that existed, am trying to forget about it really) and I came upon a case where someone had commented on the work of someone else in a way that the recipient didn't like and it all escalated.
So that got me thinking. How does one use concrit? And how does one accept it?
I mean, so far most of the stories I've read have been darn good and commenting is easy.
But what if you don't like a story you come across?
(And am not talking about genre here. I know I don't read Wincest and parts of me regrets it because I'm bloody sure there are some fantastic Wincest writers out there and I'm missing out on great wordweaving just cuz the genre is not my cup ot tea. I'm talking about dislike of the actual writing.)
What if a fic reminds you too much of a Mary Sue, or weak writing or weak plot or the characters are not spot on or whatever? What if you simply don't like it? What if it doesn't click? What do you do?
Do you say your opinion or do you push the back button of your browser and are done with it? (and I plead guilty of that too.)
They way I see it, if you put your writing or art or whatever out here, you have to be ready to accept criticism. That tells you that hey, stop overanalyzing, or check your tenses, or tie up your plots, or do a spell check or whatever. Or simply keep on doing what you're doing, cuz something about it is right. Cuz actual honest feedback helps.
As a reader, it somehow should be both duty and pleasure to say what I liked about the fic I read. Or how I think the story could improve.
So what if you come across something you don't like? Ay, there's the rub.
I know most people will tell Oh hey, I totally accept criticism if it's explained right and nicely
(and no, That Sucks, is not feedback, IMO. You can say the worst things in the nicest way if your intentions are the right ones, whatever that means.)
but I also know that when i first started writing fics (years ago, but this year is the first one i'm actually submitting) my beta and (sole) reader of those stories back then would tell me very nicely that Dude, this isn't working. Too much of a mary sure, no plot, etc. And at first I was like Shit, how can it be, this writing is my lovechild and my child can never be not working but once I calmed down and went through what she said I realized that 9 out of 10 (not 10 out of 10, she'll get cocky if she reads this : ) ) she had been right. And I know that my writing improved just cuz of that. (to the point, that once sucked into the lovely SPN verse I actually plucked up the courage and decided to put my writing out here. Which has been totally fun by the way. And lovely. And made me read a whole ton of gorgeous fics from various communities and writers and I'm drifting again)
So where was I? Right.
Feedback is love, sure, but feedback should also be just that: feedback. Because love, to quote Wesley Wyndam Pryce, can be a terrible thing.
(Erm. Yes. Your feedback highly appreciated.)
What if a fic reminds you too much of a Mary Sue, or weak writing or weak plot or the characters are not spot on or whatever? What if you simply don't like it? What if it doesn't click? What do you do?
Do you say your opinion or do you push the back button of your browser and are done with it? (and I plead guilty of that too.)
They way I see it, if you put your writing or art or whatever out here, you have to be ready to accept criticism. That tells you that hey, stop overanalyzing, or check your tenses, or tie up your plots, or do a spell check or whatever. Or simply keep on doing what you're doing, cuz something about it is right. Cuz actual honest feedback helps.
As a reader, it somehow should be both duty and pleasure to say what I liked about the fic I read. Or how I think the story could improve.
So what if you come across something you don't like? Ay, there's the rub.
I know most people will tell Oh hey, I totally accept criticism if it's explained right and nicely
(and no, That Sucks, is not feedback, IMO. You can say the worst things in the nicest way if your intentions are the right ones, whatever that means.)
but I also know that when i first started writing fics (years ago, but this year is the first one i'm actually submitting) my beta and (sole) reader of those stories back then would tell me very nicely that Dude, this isn't working. Too much of a mary sure, no plot, etc. And at first I was like Shit, how can it be, this writing is my lovechild and my child can never be not working but once I calmed down and went through what she said I realized that 9 out of 10 (not 10 out of 10, she'll get cocky if she reads this : ) ) she had been right. And I know that my writing improved just cuz of that. (to the point, that once sucked into the lovely SPN verse I actually plucked up the courage and decided to put my writing out here. Which has been totally fun by the way. And lovely. And made me read a whole ton of gorgeous fics from various communities and writers and I'm drifting again)
So where was I? Right.
Feedback is love, sure, but feedback should also be just that: feedback. Because love, to quote Wesley Wyndam Pryce, can be a terrible thing.
(Erm. Yes. Your feedback highly appreciated.)
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no subject
Date: 2007-02-05 10:28 pm (UTC)Personally, when I don't like a story, for characterization, lack of a semi decent grammar (even if I'm not English and I'm not always sure about that) lack of respect of the pov and generally all those things that make me not enjoy a story, I simply click the back button and I'm done with it.
In general it works well, even if sometimes I want to rant when bad!fic get good feedback and good!fic get no feedback at all. But not my problem, I tell myself.
Also, always personally, I ask my beta(s) to rip my stories to shred and be brutally honest. I always insist on this point and say that I will not get offended etc. And I have noticed that my betas (who are some kickasses girls) actually improve my writing, and have improved it so much since the first time I decided to post a story for the public.
Also when I post a story I say that I'll accept constructive criticism and if someone would actually do that, I'd be happy, because even if I maybe do not agree on the critic, it will give me the chance to reflect more on that aspect. And in the end, when the sting passes (because there is always a slight sting) it is a good thing.
As for giving a constructive criticism, nope! I've been burned badly when someone explicitly asked for a concrit and insisted to have it, (insisted like very, very much) only to tell me in the end that I was being picky (and it was a matter of respect of the point of view, which I think is very important for a story well written and readable). That friendshop ended (not only for this reason) but I still feel sorry, would have kept the friend over the fic.
Now I either focus on the good part or don't leave feedback at all.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-06 06:45 pm (UTC)I'm 100% with you on what you say. And yes, there is always a sting whenever you get critic even if you're not willing to admit it.
It's very smart and decent on your part clarifying everything before you give or accept criticism, because I guess not everyone sees it the same way.
In general it works well, even if sometimes I want to rant when bad!fic get good feedback and good!fic get no feedback at all. But not my problem, I tell myself. *nods* Yes. Big emphatic one too.
And I plead guilty of the back button, but I suspect that's the wisest approach to everything.
Thank you for giving me your take on the whole subject. Highly appreciated.