ultraviolet9a: (thursday)
[personal profile] ultraviolet9a
I got back from the trip a couple of hours ago. It was awesome. And [livejournal.com profile] e313 is awesome too, cuz i arrived on friday really late, and she had waited up for me so we could watch SPN together. And we did. And, the great thing about watching with a fellow fangirl, is the talking afterwards. And the flailing. Because this ep had me flailing and thinky on many levels, and though i know people more eloquent than me have already done the meta for this ep, i can't hold the thoughts back. I haven't read any other meta yet and i'm completely unspoilt for future episodes, (would like it to remain so), but this is what i came up with talking with e313 at... i don't know. After midnight on friday night.

So here it goes:

I love Sam, yes? I always did. I also love Dean. I love them all, with special emphasis on Cas and John, so this? This is not part of the Sam vs Dean thing. I don't give a crap about that. These are my own thoughts. Characters should serve the story, not the other way round, anyway. For me at least. Anyway.

So, i love Sam. I do. But my first thought when i saw him drinking that blood was 'oh you arrogant bastard." Cuz, hey, he is arrogant. He is a lot like John, but John had two children following him, and that grounded him, made him.... less rigid than Sam. Sam is arrogant. So arrogant. He was warned by Dean to stop using his powers, and Dean is the guy who laid down his life for him without a moment's thought. He should have listened. He was warned by Cas. He was warned even by poor, brilliant Pam, and STILL he goes on and does that. Which means he's a junkie. Yes? Which also means that Ruby? Ruby is waaaaaay higher in the hierarchy than we thought, cuz i don't think that a smallfry demon would a. have that magic knife she had b. would have the ability and blood powerful enough to train Sam. So she's been part of the YED's plan all along, offering power in clever ways. And Power corrupts, and Sam's heading down that way and the road to hell being paved with good intentions? Sam's doing some pretty solid paving if you ask me.

Which logically leads to the conclusion that since Dean is the first seal, Sam is the last. It makes sense somehow, no? He's been steered there, maybe to serve as a host or general for Lucifer himself.

Dean. Jensen should get a freaking Emmy already. Thing is though, before he was the one to break the seal, they tried to make John break it, no? According to Alastair. Which got me thinking that AAAAAALL of this was the YED's plan. Psy kids were just something of a smoke screen. Maybe he had seen their auras or whatever, and he framed the father, the righteous father, leading him to hell, because how else would a righteous man end up in hell in order to do the killing? How else? Only with a devil's deal. But the father held out, so they got the son eventually. Maybe there was something bright in them, something bright in all the Winchester boys. And maybe whatever was bright in Sam, they attempt to twist, because there is nothing more dangerous than somebody heaving havoc all the while believing that he is doing the right thing. Maybe the first and last seal should be broken by common blood, i don't know.

But this is the thing. If Dean is the righteous one, Sam has become self-righteous. And i love Kripke for leading us smoothly there, for selling it so freaking well and at the same time making me go all 'oh sam' because you can see which choices led him on his path.

Speaking of Emmy, one for Misha too. Freaking brilliant he is. And his chemistry with Dean is amazing. Now, I'm a gen girl, but in this case? This is the closest to slash that Kripke could show onscreen. And man, it can be totally sold. Because here is the thing. Anna and Castiel are the last of their garrison, no? Castiel has lost his brothers, is lost, confused, has shaky faith.

And Dean... Dean misses his brother, lord knows that. We saw that in the ep with the Siren, how this New and Improved Sam has left a gaping hole in him. So he needs something to hold on to, and i think that someone is Castiel. I don't mean it (just) for sex, i'm talking about bonds and roots. Both are always trying to do the right thing, both are trying to protect people, and both are confused and torn with choices. And Cas has nowhere to go. He can't trust the other angels, can he? Besides Anna i mean. Speaking of which, in this episode? Anna reminded me... of a mother somehow. Or a sergeant taking care of her soldiers, her sons. There was nothing hetish about that (for me) but there were bonds, ties that run deep.

(Castiel in his trenchcoat, bend over the trap trying to figure how the trap broke, reminded me of Mulder somehow. Don't know why. And Anna came, in her red hair, all Scully like, seeding doubt. He wants to believe and she's the sceptic. Just an odd thought.)

So, a lot of angels hate mankind, demons hate mankind, angels and demon hate each other and the apocalypse is coming so much closer. How much more can i love this show? How much more.

(just a question though, if only angels can kill angels, how does this agree with the first angel eps when Cas was saying 'i lost six brothers this week'? *frown*)

These were some of the things e313 and I were flailing about. I swear, if you look real close, you might actually find coherency somewhere in the above text, but i'm so tired and i just needed to write everything down before it evaporates from my brain. *yawn*
 
I hope you had an awesome weekend!


Your 4.16 thoughts

Date: 2009-03-22 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewanmax.livejournal.com
Wow, you totally gave me so many things to think about, thank you for your insightful take on it. I've watched it 3 times and absolutely agree that Jensen is so underrated in the acting department, that the show from start to finish blew my mind and that all of Castiel's pieces including the one where he is bent over examing the broken line (yes, I found that so interesting and can totally see the Mulder/Scully thing) were really well done in exploring this captivating character.

Re: Your 4.16 thoughts

Date: 2009-03-23 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
I'm glad you liked my not so coherent thoughts. I think this was one of my fav episodes ever.

Date: 2009-03-22 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kimmer1227.livejournal.com
Which logically leads to the conclusion that since Dean is the first seal, Sam is the last. It makes sense somehow, no? He's been steered there, maybe to serve as a host or general for Lucifer himself.

This is both terrifying and absofuckinglutely awesome.

Oh, boys.

Date: 2009-03-23 03:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
Isn't it? I kinda like that symmetry. :)

Date: 2009-03-22 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vanillafluffy.livejournal.com
Going back to Azazel and his plans, can I just say ONE thing? Croatoan. A/k/a the demon virus in season two. Which they never did explain---except that Sam was apparently immune to it. As we later found out, he was NOT immune to possession...so what was the point of that little experiment? For that matter, are we certain it was Azazel behind it? We assume so, because of the blood chalice at the end, but for what purpose?

Okay, so infant-Sam was tainted with demon blood. Canon fact. Exposing a child to an infection produces antibodies which negate the child coming down with a more serious illness if they're exposed to it later in life. RL fact. So if Sam has pre-immunity to negative effects of demon blood, and he's buffered from possession (presuming the pretty tattoo works as advertised), then having that reenforced by further consumption of demon blood ought to boost his immunity and may well serve to make him the weapon that will defeat Lucifer.

With Dean's help, of course, and assuming Kripke hasn't forgotten that particular plot point entirely.

Date: 2009-03-23 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
You could read it differently. Maybe the Croatoan thing was... maybe it was not about immunity. Maybe that immunity indicated that he had the potential to crave it. Maybe demon blood acts differently when drank. And maybe the infant tainted thing was just ensuring that Sam would get a taste for it? Laying the foundation?

I do like your version though.

Date: 2009-03-23 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vanillafluffy.livejournal.com
I have a morbid fondness for plagues, and I know that common childhood diseases are much more severe if an adult population with no previous immunity is exposed. Ergo, the townspeople going bugfuck crazy from Croatoan and Sam shrugging it off. His reexposure may have activated qualities of demon blood that we aren't familiar with.

There ought to be some kind of logic to it. We know that dead man's blood will poison vampires, human blood will turn rugaru cannibal...so demon blood---? We know Sam had visions and a hint of telekinesis from his initial taste (which seem to have disappeared since Azazel's death). We don't *know* of any side-effects from Croatoan, but Ruby's blood seems to be loaded with vitamins talent special effects. So if Ruby was killed, would Sam's current demon mojo vanish?

But in keeping with your theory of potential, the other Special Children seemed to embrace the corruption, more easily than Sam, for the most part, leading me to wonder if his recent exposure to Croatoan gave him a little more resistance. OR something about the Winchester genes and/or his upbringing that caused him to take longer to succumb?

And...I know this is a stretch, but at the time he was exposed to Croatoan, John was in Hell, and when he presumably first started feeding off Ruby, Dean was in Hell. The connection, if there is one, may be purely psychological, but in some twisted corner of Sam's psyche, I suspect he's embracing it as a way to reach out to his lost loved ones. The fact that Dean is back now is mitigated by the fact that Sam has played out that scenario before too: Thanks for nothing, Trickster! Happy as he was to have Dean back, I don't think he has any faith that it's for real, and for Sam, losing faith in Dean is even worse than losing faith in God, and we KNOW how that's been going.

I need to pull myself together and do a meta post on all this, it's getting crazy....

Date: 2009-03-26 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
This show is such a playground, isn't it? So many potentials, so many theories fandom can find! *loves*

Date: 2009-03-23 05:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] i-speak-tongue.livejournal.com
This ep is a tough meta just because there is so much damn ground to cover! I like what you've pointed to here though!

Dean misses his brother, lord knows that. We saw that in the ep with the Siren, how this New and Improved Sam has left a gaping hole in him. So he needs something to hold on to, and i think that someone is Castiel. I don't mean it (just) for sex, i'm talking about bonds and roots. Both are always trying to do the right thing, both are trying to protect people, and both are confused and torn with choices.

Watching Castiel slowly realize Uriel had betrayed him (/god/humanity), was heartbreaking. Not because I was super attached to their bromance, but because it totally mirrored and foreshadowed Sam and Dean's relationship. Or rather its deterioration. And I think you're right. I think Dean and Castiel will seek solace from each other because of it.

At least, I hope so. Because they sure as hell seem to need it.

Date: 2009-03-23 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
This ep is a masterpiece, i'm telling you. *huggles ep*

Date: 2009-03-23 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animotus.livejournal.com
I agree about Sam,I've always thought he is stubborn and arrogant like John,I also think that being without Dean plus Ruby presence CHANGED him a lot,he still is Sammy but right now he can't go back,even if he wanted he wouldn't be able to change things...at least without his brother,and since he keeps on cutting Dean off (becasue that demon blood MUST affect him somehow)...well,I think things won't be pleasent from now on!
Sam being the last seal?Oh yeah,that would be very Kripke and very painful,but could be bb!;D

I've been thinking a lot about John and Dean in Hell,as much as I love John I don't think Dean was less "man" than his father,I still am convinced that something happened down there to make Dean break!I was telling smilla that maybe he "saw" Sam trying to make a deal...I don't know,I'm sure and I hope the YED thing didn't end with season 2!

Weren't the actors all amazing?Jensen is brilliant but he always surprises me with his intense and clever acting!Misha too,I bet is not that easy performing someone with no "apparent" feelings!

Date: 2009-03-23 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
I don't think Dean not managing in hell is a sign he is less of a man than his father. Just that he's different than his father. John is a stubborn son of a bitch. Dean thrives on love. In hell, there was no chance of that. So.

And OMG YES. AMAZING ACTING.

Date: 2009-03-23 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animotus.livejournal.com
Yeah,I think I used the wrong words,but I agree about Dean being different and this makes me hope more about his future!

Date: 2009-03-23 09:26 am (UTC)
ext_13391: (Default)
From: [identity profile] smilla02.livejournal.com
But this is the thing. If Dean is the righteous one, Sam has become self-righteous. And i love Kripke for leading us smoothly there, for selling it so freaking well and at the same time making me go all 'oh sam' because you can see which choices led him on his path.


Oh, I love when you put your thinky hat on. I agree that this is what Kripke and Co are going with the storyline. I love how Dean's 'I'm not the righ man for the job' mirrors Sam's 'I'm the only man for the job'.

I adore the murkyness that permeates this season. It's uncomfortable, it steals us of our landmarks I can't even imagine what it's doing to Dean, Sam and now to Castiel.

This said, I hope that the dead angels thing is going to be explained soon, along with some of the things that made me raise an eyebrow at continuity.

I hope you had a glorious weekend, hon!

Date: 2009-03-23 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
Speaking of dead angels, i forgot to add that angels get killed in the throat symbolically, no? Because they are the Word of God? *dons thinky hat*

My weekend was glorious indeed. I hope you enjoyed your drive with your new baby!!!!

Date: 2009-03-23 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] labseraph.livejournal.com
Ruby is waaaaaay higher in the hierarchy than we thought, cuz i don't think that a smallfry demon would a. have that magic knife she had b. would have the ability and blood powerful enough to train Sam. So she's been part of the YED's plan all along, offering power in clever ways. And Power corrupts, and Sam's heading down that way and the road to hell being paved with good intentions? Sam's doing some pretty solid paving if you ask me.

YES. Agree with you wholeheartedly here. Because her choice to back so dark a horse like Sam Winchester; out of the goodness of her heart? So what if she remembered being human. A lot of human beings don't care about other human beings. Note the Khmer Rouge as example. I've always been suspicious of her motive and that gloating look on her face as Sam was feeding on her confirmed this.

... he framed the father, the righteous father, leading him to hell, because how else would a righteous man end up in hell in order to do the killing?

This is definitely food for thought.

If Dean is the righteous one, Sam has become self-righteous.

How succinctly put!

... if only angels can kill angels, how does this agree with the first angel eps when Cas was saying 'i lost six brothers this week'?

I think we took it for granted that in the beginning, the line was between heaven and hell. But now we saw that there're agent(s) of heaven are distorting the line; perhaps even as early as YED's plans, working in collusion with him. It brought to mind the movie Constantine and Gabriel's work to bring Mammon on Earth so that men can be tested and prove themselves worthy of God's love.I love it that Tessa cautioned Dean that there are no miracles, just lies and more lies. I think that plays really well into this revelation.

But the Dean whumping was epic and trippingly fantastic, dontcha think?

Date: 2009-03-26 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
OMG YES. SOOOO DELICIOUS. :)

btw, i think the blurred line you mentioned? YES. Adds to the show.

Date: 2009-03-23 11:53 pm (UTC)
ext_11786: (Default)
From: [identity profile] dotfic.livejournal.com
hey, he is arrogant. He is a lot like John, but John had two children following him, and that grounded him, made him.... less rigid than Sam. Sam is arrogant. So arrogant. He was warned by Dean to stop using his powers, and Dean is the guy who laid down his life for him without a moment's thought. He should have listened. He was warned by Cas. He was warned even by poor, brilliant Pam, and STILL he goes on and does that. Which means he's a junkie.

Sam is worrying me greatly right now. It's not a clear-cut thing to me. I think at the core, he got into this dark place because of his grief and love for Dean and his need to get control back--control will push off the fear. Sam is sick of feeling helpless and we know he wants to WIN this war because, as he said in Cris Angel, he doesn't want to have to do this when he's old. He was a life. He wants Dean to be safe.

But having gotten into it, he's sinking deeper and deeper into a scary dark place and I think he's power-addicted. When Sam killed Alastair I thought that was vengeance for Dean but that Sam enjoyed doing it too much, the power rush for its own sake, the sense of power.

So I'm all "Saaaaaaaaaam oh noes!" but also--I don't like this Sam, he's hard and remote and scares me.

Dean I am still just about completely incoherent on, that hurt sooo much to see.

And I thought I loved Castiel before this ep. Now I think there's no escape for me. It's so wonderfully complicated and brutal and yet also heartaching and his own side-hero journey, and the evolution of his affection for Dean, and the echoes between the two of them, pwn me so much.

how does this agree with the first angel eps when Cas was saying 'i lost six brothers this week'

My best thought on that is that fallen angels can kill angels, and some demons are fallen angels (rather than formerly human).

Castiel in his trenchcoat, bend over the trap trying to figure how the trap broke, reminded me of Mulder somehow. Don't know why. And Anna came, in her red hair, all Scully like, seeding doubt.

Hee! That's a thought! You know, he did ping me a certain way there and I couldn't pinpoint it but that may be it. I really loved what this ep did with free will and doubt and faith.




Date: 2009-03-26 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com
I think it's like Sam fell of a cliff. Even if he wanted to he couldn't break his fall. UNLESS someone flew and caught him *hintDeanhint*

The fallen angels became demons, right? And then turned humans into demons. There were no demons prior to the Fall, were there? *tries to remember* So your theory makes sense. *is happy*

It was an awesome ep.

Profile

ultraviolet9a: (Default)
ultraviolet9a

January 2013

S M T W T F S
   12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Sep. 26th, 2017 02:25 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios